Conclusions of the EUROSAI training committee, Lisbon, 22 January 2003

The EUROSAI training committee (ETC), consisting, according to the decision made in Madrid on 16 February 2000 by the governing board, of 8 members, namely Spain and France for the presidency, Portugal, United Kingdom, Czech Republic, Germany, Poland and Denmark, held a meeting in Lisbon on 22 January 2003. According to the decision made by the Governing board in Copenhagen on 7 March 2002, SAI of Lithuania attended this meeting as an observer. Due to the agenda, representatives of IDI, SIGMA-OECD, the European Court of Auditors, SAIs of Hungary and of the EUROSAI presidency (SAI of the Russian Federation) were also invited to attend this meeting.

This meeting was preceded by a two day “brainstorming” session on Training Strategy, held on 20 & 21 January 2003, attended by the aforementioned representatives.

Mr Jose Tavares, Director General of the Tribunal de Contas, welcomed the participants on behalf of Mr Alfredo Jose de Sousa, president of the Tribunal de Contas.

1. Adoption of the conclusions of the Madrid ETC meeting and adoption of the draft agenda:

The draft conclusions of the Madrid ETC meeting were adopted. The draft agenda of the Lisbon meeting was adopted, after the three following additions, under point 5 “Information points and miscellaneous”:

- Information on public sector auditor certification ( SAI of United Kingdom) ;
- Information on working group on audit manuals ( ECA);
- Information on the preparation of the next EUROSAI-EURORAI conference in Copenhagen.

2. Training activities:

2.1. EUROSAI – IDI co-operation : situation and prospects:

Mrs Geagea made a presentation on the current stage and next steps of the EUROSAI Long Term Regional Training Programme (LTRTP).

-       Concerning the Phase I, aimed at SAI’s of the candidate countries, the cycle is almost completed. 9 training specialists from 8 SAIs delivered a first Regional Audit Workshops (RAW) in Tallinn (Estonia) from 9 to 20 September 2002, on financial audit and fraud. The report on this workshop is now available. A second RAW will take place in Nicosia (Cyprus), from 3 to 14 February 2003. Training materials will be available on CD-Rom for target SAIs.

-       Concerning the Phase II, aimed at SAI’s from the Balkan and eastern “non-candidate” countries, the first step, i.e. the Strategic Planning Workshop (SPW), was held in Zagreb (Croatia) from 11 to 14 November 2002, with the participation of 11 SAIs¹⁾. Representatives of the ETC and SAIs participating in the Phase I were also involved. The SPW aimed at discussing the goals, key strategies and components of the LTRTP, and reaching an agreement on an action plan for its implementation. The LTRTP –Phase II - activities will take place from Spring 2004 to Fall 2005, after preparation in 2003 (translation of course materials, selection of participants, etc.). The classroom instruction segment of CDDW and ITW will be held in English with simultaneous translation in Russian. The practicum segment, as well as the RAWs, will be held in Russian and English. Participants identified training needs and selected topics for the 8 day and the 2 day courses²⁾. A draft report of the SPW is distributed to the ETC participants.

In addition to this presentation, Mrs Kristensen underlined the necessity of organising an adequate co-ordination for Phase II, involving some of the participating SAIs, through, for instance, a small LTRTP committee. Moreover, she indicated that all LTRTP materials are available free of charge for target SAIs, but will be charged to other SAIs.

Concerning the funding of the SPW - Phase II, Mr Perron gave the following information :

-       He confirmed that the Norwegian government has expressed keen interest for funding a substantial part of the Phase II ;

-       According to the decision made by the Congress in Moscow, devoting an important part of the budget 2003-2005 to Training activities, EUROSAI budget will provide a contribution to the LTRTP –Phase II. IDI will apply for a contribution estimated to 40.000 euros in 2003, 40.000 euros in 2004 and 30.000 euros in 2005. This amount would still let funding available for subsidies, on the EUROSAI budget 2003-2005, to other Training activities, like annual “Training events”. After 2005, the LTRTP will be completed, and EUROSAI may use subsidies appropriations for any other training activity ;

-       For the funding of the remaining part of the phase II, discussion are still under way with other donors (World Bank, etc.). Even if the share taken on EUROSAI budget remains limited (about 7 % of the whole cost of Phase II), discussion with donors will be facilitated by the strong financial commitment expressed by EUROSAI itself regarding the LTRTP.

During the discussion, Mr Boeckem, ECA representative, observed that some topics dealt with in the LTRTP are sometimes close to those examined within the working groups of the candidate countries SAIs network. This calls for a more co-ordinate approach between LTRTP activities and activities developing within these working groups.

Mr Treen, representative from SIGMA, wondered whether IDI was thinking about further phases of the EUROSAI LTRTP (Phase III, IV ?). Mrs Kristensen answered that IDI task, focused on SAIs from developing and emerging countries, is for the time being to complete in all INTOSAI regions the LTRTP cycle. After that stage, IDI will consider other issues, specially the co-operation with the INTOSAI committees and working groups, in order to disseminate their works, and to develop new Training techniques, like e-learning.

Mr Shelyuoto, representative of the Russian Federation and EUROSAI presidency, noted the success of the first event of Phase II and his satisfaction with the decision made regarding the use of languages (English and Russian) in the Phase II, in accordance with the actual speaking languages in each sub-region, and expressed the readiness of his SAI to co-operate fully on all issues, including organisation, translation and identification of relevant instructors.

a IDI and ETC will explore the way to ensure an adequate co-ordination of the Phase II, involving some of the participating SAIs

a IDI will apply for a contribution from the EUROSAI budget to the LTRTP –Phase II. This application will be submitted to the Governing Board members through written consultation

2.2. Training events:

a) Second training event : VFM Seminar in Budapest (18-20 September 2002):

On behalf of Mr Halasz, Mr Bedwell, representative of the SAI of United Kingdom, presented a report on the VFM Seminar organised jointly by the SAO of Hungary and the NAO of United Kingdom in Budapest from 18 to 20 September 2002. This seminar, aimed at showing latest development in VFM methodologies illustrated by several case studies, was a great success, when it comes to the number of participants (54 auditors from 28 SAIs) as well as to their evaluation of the results achieved (average score above 4 on a 1-5 scale). The full documentation of the Seminar is available on the website of the SAO of Hungary (http://www.asz.hu) or through EUROSAI training website.

During the discussion, some participants observed that EUROSAI should try to build up on these “events” in a better structured way, supporting, for instance, the establishment of detailed manual or guidelines. Mr Shelyuto, representative of the SAI of the Federation of Russia, expressed his gratitude to the organisers of the VFM Seminar, a very good example of co-operation in an audit area interesting for all EUROSAI members, and in which his SAI is now engaged. He would consider as very useful to get information about the INTOSAI standards and the updated version of the European implementing guidelines in the field of performance audit.

Mrs Kristensen informed that INTOSAI standards regarding VFM have been very recently revised, and IDI will consider the ways to make SAIs draw the best benefit from this work. ASOSAI has also produced useful works in this area. On the European side, Dieter Boeckem indicated that the idea to update the European implementing guidelines has been discussed, but no working group has been set up yet, and no concrete work has been launched. This will certainly take time, but the results will obviously be available to all SAIs.

Mr Perron, representative of the SAI of France, suggested that a certificate attesting attendance could be sent to the participants in the Seminar, as it was done for the first Training event in Golavice.

a A certificate of attendance, co-signed by the hosting SAI and EUROSAI General Secretariat, will be sent to each participant in the Seminar.

b) Third training event : Evaluation of internal control in Prague (26-28 May 2003):

Mrs Eisnerova and Mr Michovsky presented the draft programme and made a presentation on the current stage of organisation of this seminar, prepared in co-operation between the SAI’s of Czech Republic and Germany. Since this topic is rather “hot” on the European scene, about 50 foreign participants are expected. The meeting venue will be in an new-built hotel in Prague. Just as the VFM seminar, this seminar will be practically oriented. It will comprise reflections on results of INTOSAI internal control standards committee, methodology and case studies (15-20 minute presentations, followed by discussion). It will also include reports and panel discussion of experts on evaluation of internal control both in member states and candidate countries. Invitation letters have been recently sent to all EUROSAI members.

a SAIs providing presentations and specially case studies (Germany, UK, France and Austria) will have to inform as soon as possible the SAO of the Czech Republic about the designated presenter and the topic dealt with.

a An IDI representative will be invited to the 3rd training event in Prague, as it was the case for the 2nd training event in Budapest.

a A certificate of attendance, co-signed by the hosting SAI and EUROSAI General Secretariat, will be sent to each participant in the Seminar.

3. Web resources:

Mr Sorensen, representative of the SAI of Denmark, made a short presentation of the first draft layout of the EUROSAI website, prepared by the SAI of Denmark in consultation with the SAI’s of France and Spain. This first draft has been sent to all ETC participants just before the ETC meeting. It will be refined till the next meeting of the ETC.

a Comments and suggestions from ETC participants are very welcome. They have to be sent to Mrs Sorensen, representative of the SAI of Denmark, if possible before March 2003.

a A second working meeting between the SAIs of Denmark, Spain and France will take place in Copenhagen at the end of March.

a A second draft of the layout will be presented at the next ETC meting, planned for June 2003.

4. Training strategy:

Mr Perron, representative of the French SAI, presented the main results of the “brainstorming” session on Training strategy held on 20-21 January. The draft paper was amended and the new version is attached to the present draft conclusions (see Annex I) along with the current results of each working group on each key result area (see Annex II.1 ‘Training/Professional development’; Annex II.2 ‘Sharing Information’; Annex II.3 ‘Exchange of Experiences’).

During the discussion, the issue of an improved co-ordination between different working groups at the European level and the ETC was raised. Mr Treen, representative of SIGMA, underlined the role that ETC could play as a platform for some co-operative activities, like those of the working group on “audit activities” created within the network of candidate countries SAIs. Other participants insisted on the difference between EUROSAI and other sub-regional groups, which have not necessarily the same needs and priorities. Mrs Lopes, representative of the SAI of Portugal, observed that this important issue of co-ordination / co-operation with other groups was not taken into account as a specific key result area, but only within the three key result areas identified during the “brainstorming”. The ‘policy of co-operation’ of the ETC should be dealt with specifically.

Mr Perron, representative of the French SAI, suggested that each key-result area already identified could be devoted to a sub-group working electronically, in order to complete the draft action plan engaged during the “brainstorming”. The results of their work would be sent to the SAI of Portugal for elaborating specific actions (goals/objectives/activities, etc..) in the area of ‘co-operation policy’.

Following decisions were made :

a Mr Perron will send as soon as possible the main results of the brainstorming session, along with the conclusions of the ETC meeting

a To complete the draft action plan, three sub-groups are created :

- sub-group I : Training/Professional development : co-ordinator
• co- ordinator : European Court of Auditor
• member : Lithuania
- sub-group II : Sharing Information
• co-ordinator : SAI of Denmark
• member : SAI of Poland
- sub-group III : Exchange of experience
• co-ordinator : SAI of Czech Republic
• member : SAI of France

a These groups will complete the action planning tables and send them back to the SAI of France for the 15 February 2003

a The SAI of Portugal will develop a draft action plan relying on the work of the 3 sub-groups, for the end of February

a On the basis of these results, a draft short questionnaire, including assessing training needs, will be prepared by the SAI of France and circulated to all ETC participants for approval

a This questionnaire will be sent to all EUROSAI members and its results presented during the next ETC meeting in June 2003

a A first report on Training strategy will be presented to the next meeting of the Governing Board in October 2003.

5. Information points:

5.1. Experience on public sector auditor certification in the UK:

In response to a point raised by Dieter Boeckem, representative of the ECA, about basic qualifications for auditors from Candidate Countries, Mr Bedwell, representative of the SAI of United Kingdom, told the ETC about proposals from the UK’s Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy’s (CIPFA) for public sector qualifications in accountancy and audit. The accountancy qualification was for those countries where it was perceived there was only a limited, or no tradition of professional accountancy training. As regards the audit qualification, this would be a post-graduate qualification - “Diploma in Public Auditing”, based on modular syllabus covering the subjects of auditing principles, planning, risk and internal control, systems based approach to audit, audit management and specialised audit roles, management accounting for auditors and financial accounting for auditors. Training courses would be taught in-country; delivered by local staff/institutions, supported by CIPFA training staff as appropriate.

The ETC agreed Mr Bedwell should express the Committee’s interest to CIPFA and circulate more detailed information to members in preparation for discussions at the next ETC meeting in June 2003.

It was decided that this question will be further developed as a point on the agenda of the next ETC meeting in June 2003.

5.2. Information on working group on audit manuals:

Mr Boeckem, representative of the ECA, made a presentation on the activities of the working group on audit manuals set up by the presidents of candidate countries SAIs, in liaison with ECA and SIGMA. He recalled briefly the history, mandate and results achieved in 2002 by this working group, including 4 workshops held in 2002³⁾, 6 newsletters issued, and an ongoing electronic discussion group. These activities will continue in 2003 : 3 workshops could be scheduled, on topics selected among 6 potential subjects already identified⁴⁾. Newsletters as well as electronic discussion group will go on. Mr Boeckem underlined that exchange of materials and information sharing would be very useful between this group and EUROSAI training activities, like training events or LTRTP ones.

Mr Treen, representative of SIGMA, considered this working group as a good example of co-operation, providing valuable information and experiences to be shared and further used by the participants of the network. The electronic discussion group seems as well to be set up for a long time, and offers information resources which are available for all. These resources will have to be considered by the sub-group working on ‘Sharing Information’ of the ETC action plan.

Mrs Kristensen, representative of IDI, informed participants that IDI has gathered a lot of materials in many fields (financial audit, IT, environment, performance audit, audit of revenues), valuable for this working group as well as for Information Sharing through the ETC.

5.3. Information on the preparation of the next EUROSAI-EURORAI conference in Copenhagen:

Mr Pedersen, representative of the SAI of Denmark, presented the draft programme and gave some information about the preparation of the next EUROSAI-EURORAI conference to be held in Copenhagen on the theme of health care on 5-7 June 2003. The draft agenda of this meeting will be further discussed within an international working group set up for its preparation. This working group has already held two meetings and will meet again twice before the conference (25 March and 12 May). 90 foreign delegates plus 40 accompanying persons are expected. Interpretation in the 5 EUROSAI official languages will be provided.

6. Date and place of the next meeting.

The SAI of Poland kindly proposed to host the next ETC meeting, on 23-24 June 2003 (initially 12-13 January). The meeting will last a day (likely afternoon and next morning).

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¹⁾ SAIs of Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Georgia, Macedonia, Moldova, Russian Federation and Ukraine. The FRY, which is in the target group, has not yet a SAI registered by INTOSAI, and it was not possible to identify potential participants.

²⁾ The English speaking group has not yet selected a topic for the 8 day course.

³⁾ On the following topics : « Preparing Audit Manuals and Mission Statements » ; « Public Sector External Auditing Policies and Standards » ; « Methodologies for Audits of Public Internal Financial Control » ; « «Audit Quality Control and Assurance ».

⁴⁾ 2003 potential subjects are : audit planning/risk assessment ; audit sampling ; audit of IT systems ; using computer assisted audit tools ; managing the audit process ; audit of procurement ; audit of revenues.