The Conclusions of the IV meeting of the EUROSAI training committee Prague, 7 December 2001

The EUROSAI training committee (ETC), consisting, according to the decision made in Madrid on 16 February 2000 by the governing board, of 8 members, namely Spain and France for the presidency, Portugal, United Kingdom, Czech Republic, Germany, Poland and Denmark, held a meeting in Prague on 7 December 2001. Due to the agenda, representatives of IDI, SAI’s of Hungary and of the Federation of Russia were also invited to attend this meeting¹⁾ .

The following points were addressed:

1. Adoption of the conclusions of the Paris ETC meeting and adoption of the draft agenda:

The draft conclusions of the Paris ETC meeting were adopted. The draft agenda of the Prague meeting was adopted, after the following amendments:

-       withdrawal of the information point 6.2., “further co-operation between EUROSAI and EURORAI, on the request of the SAI of Denmark ;

-       addition of a new information point, concerning a “presentation of the Twinnings”, on the suggestion of the SAI of United Kingdom.

2. Budgetary issues:

According to the decision of the governing board (Ljubljana meeting, March 2001) to launch a prospective study on the budget of the organisation, the ETC was given the task to make proposals on the evolution of the budget of the organisation, both for incomes and expenses, in order to support the development of training activities.

During the Paris meeting of the ETC, the representative of Spain, in agreement with the SAI of France, presented a preliminary report on these issues. Taking into account the results of the discussion, the latter were asked to carry on working on budgetary issues and to refer to the other members on progress made before the next ETC meeting.

After two working meetings in Madrid, in July and October 2001, a report, circulated in October to ETC members for comments, made suggestions on 3 points:

-       reducing the costs of publications with two alternative options;

-       increasing the level of contributions, with three options: just to compensate the end of surplus and inflation (option 1), or to give a new size to the budget, alongside with development of training activities, up to 100 % (option 2) or 50 % (option 3);

-       providing guidelines and indicative criteria for granting the subsidies.

In accordance with these suggestions, a preliminary draft resolution, to be submitted to the governing board, was presented by the SAI of Spain during the Prague meeting. After discussion, the following conclusions were adopted:

a the report established by the SAI’s of Spain and France, and amended in accordance with discussions, will be presented to the next governing board meeting ;

a on this basis, a preliminary draft resolution, to be submitted to the next governing board meeting, will be prepared by the SAI’s of Spain and France, and circulated in January to all ETC members and observers to establish a final draft version. This draft resolution shall propose:

1.    to reduce the costs of publication through a) keeping only the English printed version b) reducing slightly the physical quality of the magazine c) providing all the official languages versions on the EUROSAI web site;

2.    regarding the evolution of the budget size, to adopt the intermediary option, i.e. increasing by 50 % the budget of the organisation for the period 2002-2005, in pace with the development of training activities, although some members would have been in favour of immediate increase by 100 %;

3.    to adopt the guidelines and criteria indicated in the report, which will include that the cost of training activities, specially translation and interpreters costs, will be taken into account to fix the level of subsidies.

a regarding the content of the magazine, a questionnaire, which model will be sent by IDI secretariat to the Spanish SAI, will be included in the next publication.

3. Training activities:

a) Evolution of the composition of the EUROSAI training committee:

A formal request for participation in the ETC, dated 23 July 2001, was sent by the SAI of Lithuania to the SAI of France. This request will be presented to the next governing board meeting, in Copenhagen.

During the discussion, the following remarks were passed:

-       The composition of the ETC, which is a preparatory body for the governing board, has been fixed by a decision of the governing board, during its meeting held in Madrid on 16 February 2000. According to the minutes of this meeting, the ETC “consists of eight members: the SAI’s of Germany, Denmark, Spain, Poland, Portugal, Czech Republic, the United Kingdom. This committee is jointly chaired by the SAI’s of Spain and France. Under the authority of the governing board, it will deal with all training issues”.

-       To fulfil its preparatory duty effectively, the ETC has been designed as a small structure, with a limited number of participants;
- On the other hand, according to its statutory objectives, EUROSAI is an inclusive organisation, and should consider positively initiatives for participation ;

-       Therefore, the ETC suggests, while keeping the current composition of the committee, to offer the SAI of Lithuania to be invited to the meetings of the ETC as an observer.

-       Any further requests will be likewise submitted to the governing board.

a The SAI of France will report on this request to the governing board accordingly.

b) Co-operation EUROSAI-IDI:

IDI reported on the expansion of its Secretariat’s staff. Fourteen full and part-time employees are now working on programme and administration related activities. The Programme Manager for the EUROSAI/IDI programme, Ms Fida Geagea, reported on the results of the phase I LTRTP. In addition, the phase II of the LTRTP was discussed.

- Phase I:
Ms Fida Geagea reported on the six-week Course Design and Development Workshop, held in Prague (22 October-30 November 2001), recalling its objectives, structure, challenges and expectations. According to the results of the evaluation and self-assessment, the objectives of the workshop were achieved. The possibility of meeting the first goal of the programme (creating a network of training specialists) seems high, thanks to the efforts of the participants and the assistance of the instructional team and the Subject Matter Experts (SMEs). The next activity (Instructional Techniques Workshop) will take place in Krakow (8-27 April 2002), and the training cycle of Phase I will be completed by a Regional Training Workshop to be held in the fall of 2002. The funding of Phase I should be secured by the Norwegian government (final decision is to be taken within the next few days).

During the discussion, the following remarks were passed:

-       The challenge shifts now towards the ETC, EUROSAI bodies, and each individual SAI: how to ensure the best return on this high investment, avoiding waste of human resources, and start efficiently to transfer these skills to meet the training needs at the national and regional level ?

-       This key issue has to be strongly and quickly addressed by the governing board, the liaison officers, and the top management of each SAI, in relation with partners (like SIGMA-OCDE, EU Commission, “donors” SAI’s) and initiatives (Twinnings, seminars, training events, etc.) linked to training.

a the report on Phase I to be presented to the next governing board meeting should highlight this challenge, since the final goal of the LTRTP is not only to train trainers, but to enhance in the long run the training infrastructure in SAI’s and across SAIs.

Phase II:
Phase II (“SAI’s of non candidate countries”) will be launched with a Strategic Planning Workshop, hopefully by the end 2002. However, many issues remain unresolved:

-       Funding: encouraging hints have been received from the EU Commission, the World Bank and some bilateral donors. Nothing has been confirmed or secured at this point in time.

-       Audience: concerned SAIs come from different sub-regions (Eastern Europe, Caucasus, South-Eastern Europe). It is highly probable that these SAIs have different needs and level of development.

-       Language: The use of both English and Russian might be necessary to deal with the language issue in this phase. Necessary arrangement will have to be made (translation of course material etc) to co-ordinate between the two languages.

-       Audit Experience: Potential lack of audit experience in the target group will have to be dealt with before the beginning of the training programme.

a These major questions, directly linked to EUROSAI strategy towards these SAI’s, will be presented during the next governing board meeting.

c) Training events:

- The second training event (VFM seminar), prepared in co-operation by SAI’s of Hungary and UK, will be held in Budapest in September 2002 (19-21 September, to be confirmed). The structure of the training event is already defined. Case studies will be presented by the SAI’s of Hungary, France, Portugal and the UK, to a targeted audience of around 30 auditors. Since EUROSAI may not, up to now, provide a financial support, interested SAI’s may apply to donors for funding individual costs. The SAI of Hungary informed the ETC members that a VFM seminar, organised with the GAO of the United States, will take place in Hungary in March, with the participation of some SAI’s of CEEC. After discussion, the following suggestions were made:

a Invitations will be sent in January. In order to draw due attention to this event, a short announcement will be included in the next EUROSAI magazine. The importance of this event will also be recalled during the next governing board and the Congress, with an emphasis on SAI’s of PHARE countries.

a The structure of the programme will be supplemented to take into account the results and materials stemming from the GAO seminar.

- The third training event (evaluation of internal control) will be held in the Czech Republic during the first semester 2003 (likely in the second half of May). The SAI of the Czech Republic confirmed its readiness to host this training event. SAI’s of Germany, Portugal, Poland, France and UK expressed their will to participate in a working group for the preparation of this meeting.

a The SAI’s of Czech Republic and Germany will be responsible for the technical and professional organisation of the meeting, heading a working group consisting of the SAI’s of France, Portugal, Poland and the UK. The SAI’s of Hungary may provide some materials, and the SAI of Belgium will be approached for participation.

a As for the previous training events, the presentation of case studies will be encouraged.

a If relevant, the possibility to associate some training specialists of the LTRTP will be considered.

a Around 40-50 participants may participate in this seminar.

- Regarding the topic of a fourth training event , the suggestion, made during the Paris meeting, to organise a “professional” seminar, reserved for the presidents of SAI’s, raises major interrogations among the members, and has been, for the time being, abandoned.

After discussion, it seemed clear that the definition of further topics for training events, following successful experiments, may not remain only “events” in the short run, but have to be articulated with the development of the LTRTP programme, and the evolution of training needs, within a long run strategy for training.

a the ETC will present a draft resolution to the next governing board, in order to be given the mandate to launch a preliminary study concerning a new assessment of the training needs within EUROSAI, the partners to involve, and the different realistic options that may be part of a strategy for training to be defined by the Congress and implemented by the governing board.

4. Training web- pages:

The SAI of France presented the slight amendments suggested to the lay out, in order to improve the current structure of the site, which remains poorly documented and used.

a these proposals will be circulated in January to each ETC members for comments and suggestions. The final new version of the lay out will be presented during the next governing board.

a After adoption, the SAI of France will contact all EUROSAI members to provide up-to-date information on the site.

5. Newsgroup – discussion forum:

Like the training web pages, the Newsgroup is not yet in use between auditors of the SAI’s, in spite of a presentation made during the INTOSAI Congress, before EUROSAI members, and after a circular letter signed by the presidency of EUROSAI. Besides ignorance, further development of the forum may be curbed by management concerns about the scope of information exchanged on the forum.

a Another circular letter, recalling the existence of the forum, with a presentation leaflet, will be sent to EUROSAI members;

a the same leaflet may be added to the next EUROSAI magazine.

a Participants of the IT seminar in Golawice, who expressed the will to exchange on this issue, will be contacted.

a The issue of confidentiality will be raised before the governing board. A warning item could be, for instance, added to the homepage of the forum.

6. Information points:

6.1. Activities on environmental auditing:

M. Jezierski made a presentation of the current activities and planning for the working group on environmental auditing. The next meeting of the working group will be held in Paris in April 2002.

After the first environmental seminar held in Norway in May 2001, the very significant development of audit activities in this field may give room for new training events or seminars.

a The links between ETC and the working group will be maintained in order to support training activities in this field.

6.2. Twinnings:

M. Maggs made a presentation of the Twinnings programmes performed throughout Europe, underlining the necessary co-operation to be developed with all the partners involved, including the EUROSAI-IDI programme.

a The links between ETC and the working group responsible for Twinnings will be strengthened in order to support training activities in this field.

--------

The place of the next ETC meeting is not yet defined, but the SAI of Spain will consider the possibility to hold it in Madrid, June 2002. The date of 28, June 2002 seems convenient (to be confirmed).

¹⁾ The SAI of the Federation of Russia expresses its regret not to be able to attend the meeting.